The Walking Clueless

I’m embarrassed by some people who share my gender.

I’m not going to make this a long screed or rant about a subject that has been talked to death thousands of times by as many people. However, I will never understand certain behaviors that I witness on a regular basis at scene events especially the phenomenon of those few individuals (mostly men) who are so hell bent on their own agenda that they run roughshod over those near them. I’m not talking about anything that anyone has done to me. Although personalities sometimes clash between Tops at these parties, I’m focusing on the way that some men treat women.

Not taking “no” for an answer, doing things that are inappropriately sexual, making people feel uncomfortable by your proximity — all these things are actions I see all the time and can often be the difference between a person having a good experience at a party and a bad one. This is true for veterans but is especially true for the newcomers to these events who are often people testing the waters for the first time, trying to find some level of fulfillment for desires they’ve harbored for a long time. The last thing these people need is the kind of negative vibe that certain people can create by their inability to act like mature adults.

I don’t have an explanation for these behaviors nor do I want one, I just want it to stop. I can’t believe that certain people live in such an insulated bubble that they are not aware that their actions are problematic. What are they thinking? Do they really imagine that their passive/aggressive demeanor (or aggressive/aggressive in some cases) is somehow normal? Do they even care? I honestly can’t stand to hear a woman tell me a story about how she had a good time except for one incident when some fool decided to intrude on that good time with their stupidity. I hate hearing that because it makes me feel sad that one pathetic person can cause that level of harm. The Clueless need to understand that the world or scene or individual owes them nothing. Pouting or stamping their feet won’t make it any less “fair”. Also, if guys are so horny that they really can’t control themselves, they either need to take care of that urge privately or get pills to lessen their drive when around other people.

Some folks really need to get a clue in a major way. Whether that clue comes in the form of therapy or simply a level of self-examination, it needs to happen and it needs to happen soon.


23 Responses to “The Walking Clueless”

  1. Jasmine Says:

    One of my favorite things in life is reading a magazine while someone serves me breakfast and piping hot coffee. If you must know, I like to read financial magazines. Clutching a copy of “Money” makes me one of the least sexy breakfast eaters on the planet (IMHO).

    So, here I am, after the Shadow Lane party, slurping Joe in TGIF at Gold Coast when I feel the presence of someone standing incredibly close. It kind of startles me and interupts me at the same time. There’s this guy, who shall remain nameless, standing there breathing. After doing this for several beats, he says “Can I ask you, were you thinking of playing today?”

    (Well no, I was wondering whether I needed to change the allocations in my retirment account and if the server might bring me more cream.)

    “Ah no,” I tell him, “it’s my first party and I’m not really that into playing.”

    “Well, I understand,” he says, “I can completely understand that.”

    And suddenly, he’s gone. Poof. Before I can even think. Vanished, like I’d made the whole thing up.

    In retrospect, I realized that it probably took some nerve for him to ask the question and he really wanted to ask it. To be honest, I’d seen him dart by earlier and had wondered what was up. So, his timing was poor, but his desire was solid. In the end, it was more humorous than offensive.

    I haven’t figured this phenomena out entirely, but it’s what I used to describe as the “I find you attractive, so you really must want me” syndrome. Yeah, I don’t know what to do with it. I think it’s an evolutionary tactic that allows us to persue what we want without considering the slim chance of its acquisition. Denial: it does a species good.

  2. Jasmine Says:

    I just realized that I capitalized “Joe,” (as in “cup of”) and wanted to clarify that I meant coffee and no men were slurped during breakfast. 😮

  3. If one person’s inappropriate behavior can ruin a good time, than it will be hard to have a good time very often. There’s always going to be somebody who does something inappropriate, and it could be that the person is clueless, stressed, psycho, having a bad day, or just forgets themselves for a moment. I don’t mean to downplay serious transgretions that cause serious harm, but we’ve all been on the giving or receiving end of bad behavior and that’s just life.

  4. radagast Says:

    You know, I always feel that when misunderstandings might happen, it’s often best to err on the side of caution. I’m not talking about the normal wear and tear that one gets at parties when someone asks you to play and you have to say “no thanks”. Oftentimes, that person will simply walk away — no problem. There’s a difference between the slight awkwardness of this and the person who follows a woman around silently or the person who can’t take a hint.

    Perhaps bluntness is required rather than face saving.

    • “Perhaps bluntness is required rather than face saving.”


      I’ve always believed this is the best way to go. I mean, really….say what you mean. If it’s no, then say no. On the flip side of all of this, I get a tad irritated at ones who complain about being harassed when they themselves have not actually said “no”.

      Now, if they’ve said “no”, then it’s a different story.

      Being a parent of an autistic child, I’ve come to realize there truly are some people who can not read ambiguity, especially in social groups. People who are more concrete need concrete communication. There can be a huge difference in one’s reaction when this bit of adjustment, which really isn’t so hard, is made in certain situations.

      That’s not to say that there are not true creepy predators, cuz of course there are. I agree with erring on the side of caution, as safety of course is the #1 priority. I would do the same, and have, without a doubt.

      Unless one truly and actively stalks someone at a party, I don’t feel it’s fair to fully place the responsibility of making a party pleasant or miserable on Tops alone. My belief is we are all responsible for ourselves, and that means communicating very clearly our expectations to someone. We are at a party after all, and the general consensus is that we are there to play, even if some of us are not. If that someone refuses to truly take No, as it is clearly stated without doubt, for an answer then it is certainly time for others to get involved and have a little discussion with the offender. If someone is unable to express NO clearly, and instead uses nebulous statements to try and wriggle away……I’m sorry, but I don’t feel full blame lies with the one who was never quite given an answer if they ask more than once.


      • radagast Says:

        ginger: Thank you for that well reasoned response. Much food for thought in your comment.

        I’m a firm believer in directness. That’s not to say I’m out to hurt people’s feelings but I don’t like sugarcoating things either. For my part, if a bottom I’m asking to play says, “Maybe later”, I take that as a “no” but done to allow me a way to save face.

  5. This problem has several causes:
    – A financial situation where the sponsors feel an obligation to those who’ve paid.
    – A missing set of rules and policies clearly posted.
    – There is no organized group of supervisors prepared to instantly issue a refund and escort an offender to the door.

    If the women demanded this in force, it would happen overnight.

    • radagast Says:

      I’ve seen people tossed out for a variety of reasons and don’t think organizers have a tolerance for bad behavior at all. When I call people like this “clueless”, I also mean that they seem to be oblivious about community standards as well as posted rules.

      The FMS welcome package came with four printed pages of rules covering the party itself, Tops and bottoms. Anyone claiming they did not see the rules purposely avoided them.

  6. Man I could write a book on this subject. Just a couple to add though.

    My biggest problem is “Just because a girl can take it, doesn’t mean that you have to give it”. That ego stroke drives me nuts. I once saw a Napoleon complex guy literally leaving his feet to give a stand up spanking, determined to make an impression on someone who was being playful.

    Another one is skulking from a near distance then pouncing once the coast is clear. That drives me nuts. We are at a play party, if you want to play with the girl I am with just come up and chat to us. Don’t wait until I leave the room to make your move. I don’t think I’m that intimidating either.

    And finally, to address that last part. If you KNOW that you are going to have a woody problem prior to playing with someone, choke one off before you play with them. This isn’t Saturday night in the lower east side, it is a play party and the last thing you want is a posse of tops looking for your ass because your desires were more important than the girl you was playing with.

  7. Mvee, I respectully disagree. More than one paying guest has been asked to leave my events. Their offense has to go beyond merely being creepy though.

  8. munchkin Says:

    I’m a licensed massage therapist, and though I use those skills within my current job, I only did that briefly as a profession by itself. You’d be shocked (or maybe not) by the things some men will try to get away with. I learned quickly to never have a session without making it clear that someone else was in the building (scary as hell when a large naked man gets between you and the door) and to never enter a room after a massage without gloves and a bottle of bleach. Seriously. A normal swedish massage, with all “vital areas” covered, nothing inappropriate going on, I wore baggy beige scrubs, hair in a ponytail…..the men would come out of the room, pay, say thank you, act completely normal. Then I would go back in the room to find a little gift waiting in the center of the massage table (I need a “vomit” emoticon). I, at least, was shocked to discover this happened probably at least 40% of the time. And that was the least offensive thing to happen. Some men seem to just *have* to see how far they can get no matter how inappropriate and are oblivious to it being unwelcome apparently.

    So I’m not too surprised that there are going to be at least a few guys who try to cross the line and see how much they can get away with at a spanking event. Sad, but not uncommon I’m sure. Unfortunately there seems to be no way for organizers to weed out people like that unless they have some credible evidence that it’s happened before. One of the reasons I was so hesitant to go to a party to begin with and stick fairly close to “my” group when I do go. I’ve learned that munchkins can be seen as easy targets lol.

    I just hope the women who have this kind of thing happen will report it promptly so that hopefully something even worse can be nipped in the bud before someone gets hurt. Sad that that should even have to be a concern among adults trying to have a good time.

    • radagast Says:

      I think that’s what bothers me the most about these behaviors — that there are adults out there who just refuse to act like they are. It’s also amazing to me that people hear stories of inappropriate behavior and people being tossed out of parties for it and still try to get away with doing it themselves. Pathology?

  9. Its a curious thing when the scene gets this “political”. I guess its the nature of the any social setting . Sad, really….as it’s SUPPOSED to be about like-minded people just having fun.

    This is all I can come up my brain has gone to mush.

    • radagast Says:

      I don’t know if it’s “politics” per se as much as it is about good manners and respecting boundaries. If an individual has a personality issue that makes it difficult for them to deal with others, there is a limit to how much people should put up with before saying “enough”.

  10. swfloridabrat Says:

    We have tossed people too, for inappropriate behavior-no refunds either…But we do try to get both sides of the story-and to “educate”. We even screen our members prior to their attendance to help prevent problems…Yes, some people are more socially inept than others but wrong is wrong!

  11. The problem here is, we’re expecting people to be reasonable and socially adept. This just isn’t the case much of the time. Even in our “wonderful” world of spanko’s we have people who have lousy social skills and others who just plain don’t care and are going to take what they can. My approach to these people is to 1) report to the board because the FMS guys and gals really do care 2) tell my friends because as word spreads the jerk will be shuned and 3) get over it and move on. One jerk does not a party ruin … When I balance the occasional jerk with the wonderful, caring friends and new people I’ve been with, it turns into a very positive thing. Rad, I really appreciate your outrage that some people are clueless and I love knowing that there are the “good guys” out there such as you that I can go to when there is a problem, so don’t feel that my take on this problem is dismissing your concerns. I just am rather cynical about changing everyone and have to live with the fact that there’s gonna be some jerks in life and not let it ruin my party. *grin*….after all – that’s what counts isn’t it? hugs!

  12. Laura T Says:

    My niece and I were kind of talking about inappropriate stuff yesterday. She and her gal pals from high school are all pals on Facebook with this guy from their class who has to comment on nearly every status with something that is innuendo like. Just icky creepy.

    Rad, Richard, you are being such gents, and that is truly appreciated. Richard, love the proactive advice you offer to men who may be challenged with hard evidence of their arousal.

    Lisa, I have a male friend who is a massage therapist. He has also encountered some overt groping from women.

    I wonder sometimes about the internet and immediate access to porn for some people who have either no or very limited self control. It seems at some point there is a blurring of reality and the magic screen and some of the behavior that takes place at home starts to spill over to reality.

    Bet the some of the guys leaving presents for Lisa are the guys who leer and grope and push limits set on them by spanking partners.

    My .02.

  13. is someone leaving me presents? what did I miss?

    I agree that women can be just as socially inept as men. But..I imagine that’s a topic for another day…

    The bdsm community is, and always has been..a microcosm of the larger “real” world..: rife with idiots, fools..and yes, the stray awesome dude or dudette.

    • Oops… sorry. I mis-read. Munchkin is the massage therapist. I have no excuse, except for this lovely midwest damp weather we are having. Yeah. Brain fog. That’s it.

  14. Damn. And I thought I had presents somewhere to pick up.

  15. We had two overtly sexual incidents occur at our recent party. Our Board has already discussed the incidents and the two people have had their memberships revoked.

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