The Extreme

Over on the Shadow Lane message board (subscription required) a discussion started regarding extreme or edgy fantasies which turned into an argument of sorts over whether certain fantasies are too edgy – whatever that means.

I admit to having fantasies that I don’t talk about with most people although I do discuss most things. Some of them are spanking/BDSM related, some are sexual and some are neither. I’m going to state right from the beginning that I don’t think a fantasy can be “wrong” or “right”, it simply is. Some people may not like the fantasy or what is being fantasized and that’s their prerogative but it doesn’t change my opinion that there’s nothing wrong with thinking about things or even acting upon them (within reason).

In a non-sexual context, although that could be argued by psychologists, lots of folks have violent fantasies. I admit to having revenge fantasies that I play out in my head about certain people or certain situations. Having these thoughts does not mean I have the drive to commit any of these acts. Even people who fantasize about killing their boss are free to do so because it’s not a crime until you set an actual plan in motion. Other than that, it’s merely a thought crime which, as far as I know, is not a crime.

Even acting out certain fantasies is not a crime depending on the fantasy. If a person plays a video game where he is murdering people, it is not the same as murdering people. If a writer wants to write a story from the point of view of the killer, it does not mean they are actually killing people. If an actress wants to make a movie where she is being abused and beaten by Nazis (like the one Niki Flynn was criticized for), it does not mean that real Nazis are doing anything to anybody in that video. Finally, if a woman wants to act out a rape scene with her boyfriend/lover/husband/partner, it does not mean they would really like to be raped walking home from work or by a date.

I think acting out scenes that are edgy or scary in real life, gives the person who is playing the “victim” a level of control that does not exist in the real world version. Even scenes of heavy punishment are intrinsically unlike the real world variant because the loss of control is consensual. Let’s face it, if a person was being beaten by Nazis in real life, they would not be having tea with them after the director yelled “Cut”. In real life, it would end very badly.

In no way do I think people who are critics of certain kinds of edgy play are bad or wrong – they are just giving their own opinions which govern only their lives. All of us have to get to the realization that not every situation, discussion, video or book is for us and that we have the right to “change the channel” until something we like is on. If I go up on stage for an open mic night and start doing jokes about 9/11, The Holocaust and child molestation, the audience has a right to walk out but they don’t have a right to tell me what I can and can’t talk about.


13 Responses to “The Extreme”

  1. We live in “PC” world. It makes me want to go back to the reservation where there is no politically correct among friends. California is so different. New York is worse (I got chewed out for discussing the “gypsy quarter” as it’s called in Spain, but nobody told me the ‘correct’ term for gypsy). Anyway, I hear your frustration. A bit of humor always helps over on Shadow Lane

  2. BadDog: Isn’t the term “Romani” for the people formerly known as “Gypsy”?

  3. MrCommenter Says:

    It’s the description of fantasies to others that is the problem.

    You picked a bad example. If you own the club and make the kind of jokes you describe, the audience could walk out that night, and maybe forever.

    However, on Open Mike night, the audience in effect owns the club, and they DO have the right to tell you what you can or can’t talk about. PLENTY of comics have been booed off the stage.

    Freedom of speech is not having the right to say anything you want anywhere you want. Freedom of speech is having the right to open your OWN club to say what you want.

  4. So Freedom of Speech only applies to those people with the funds to open clubs?

    If an audience wants to boo, they can boo (if the rules of the club say they can). They don’t have the right to stop me from saying it in the first place.

  5. MrCommenter Says:

    I wouldn’t worry about Gypsies or Romani’s feelings. Until the New York Times writes an article saying that Gypsy is unacceptable, I’m using it. Gypsy is a recognized term under current English law.

    A Gypsy mother sends her young child over to me in the subway. The child asks for money. I give the child a dollar. The first thing that the child says is: “Can I have another dollar” Even if I don’t respond, the child will ask several more times.

  6. Victoreally Says:

    You can’t tell the New York Times or TV what content they should publish, but you have you have enough money to run your own blog.

    The owner of the club can shut off your microphone whenever they want, and you can’t legally contest that.

  7. Yes they can….after I’ve already said it.

  8. Victoreally Says:

    You can’t contest their shutting off your microphone. And if the owner doesn’t want you back on stage, you can’t go back. If you want to pay a lawyer to get you back, then your next speech isn’t free.

  9. This discussion is getting a bit esoteric and off the original topic. However, I contend that I can do it once.

  10. I helped veer the topic away from “edgy.” My lifestyle has become “edgy” compared to my vanilla life. I have gone to parties that revolve around spanking. I’m sure the BDSM stuff is way, way edgier. I’ve noticed that on SL people tend to be quite sensitive. Mr OK put up a satirical run for “King” and some people got ruffled at the mention of politics.

    Anyway, I was once corrected at a San Francisco dinner party for referring to where I worked as the ‘Indian Medical Center.’ Which was on my paycheck and the sign on the hospital. The lady said “We say ‘Native American,’ dear.” Wow did that crack up my friends back home.

  11. Did a ‘Roundtable’ discussion a while back about fantasies… and just about everyone said that they were quite a bit more extreme than their reality was. Not just in intensity either. There were quite a few that thought about nonconsensual spankings. Sure that translates into the wider world of BDSM and sex too.

    These were ‘common’ fantasies too. Include those once in a while ones… and surely there is some really edgy stuff to be found.

    And yea, for the most part… so what? Sane people know what fantasies are possible… which ones are unlikely… and which ones need to stay fantasies.

    That said, there are things that would bother me. But my tolerance level is pretty high. Way-WAY higher than the SL board seems to have, that’s for sure. Certainly if something bugs me though, while I wouldn’t dream of taking away someone’s right to think it/say it… I would exercise my right not to be repulsed by having to hear it (and it is indeed too bad that others don’t think of it in those terms).


  12. Everyone has the right to their fantasies and I agree with Rad no fantasies are wrong it is part of the persons imagination. Being creative is a wonderful thing and if the fantasies give a person pleasure that is wonderful they should keep having them.

    If my fantasies are not someone else’s cup of tea that is fine I would not discuss them with that person. There are some things that I am uncomfortable with that does not make them wrong just not right for me.

    I did not see the post and to be honest I got tired of all the drama of the BB on SL so I do not go in there anymore. Happy dreaming!!

  13. I agree completely that one’s fantasies, no matter how edgy, are one’s own and really not subject to another’s opinions. In the case of the rape fantasy … especially when the lady has experienced it in real life … one may need to play it out time and time again in order to come to grips with what happened, while another finds the idea of re-living it horrifying and traumatic. Neither are wrong and both are entitled to give voice to their thoughts. The two may not agree, but the key is to keep it *I* think and *I* feel, not *you* can’t or *you* shouldn’t.

    As to edgy fantasies in general, doesn’t it come down to the ol’ “safe, sane and consensual?” What goes on in your head is fine, so if you have a fantasy of hanging from a meathook while being whipped that’s cool (not mine, but hey, I’m a wimp!), but I don’t think playing it out for real would be such a good idea. What’s inside your mind doesn’t harm anyone, not even yourself, and I think we’d find that more people have harsher fantasies than most would admit to, out of embarrassment or fear of being thought a kook. S’okay, we all have our demons 🙂


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